Melbourne is cheaper. Much cheaper. In Sydney, transortation was so expensive that I walked to the airport. In Melbourne, some of it’s free; when it’s officially not free, they don’t check.
You can tell it’s hard to fail in Melbourne, because the vast majority of the homeless people you meet seem to be on some insane drugs. There seems to so much tolerance for being loose with the system when really in need that, if you even remotely care to better yourself, you shouldn’t end up homeless. To me, Melbourne made Auckland - a top-10 city in “quality of life” that seems to take care of its people phenomenally - look brutally heartless by comparison.
I think most people would concur that Sydney has better weather. That said, it’s too humid, imo. And, even in the summer, the sun, while constantly out, feels strangely dim. I found Melbourne summer pretty nice, but I take it the winters kind of suck.
Sydney’s nature is unreal, too. Like, “how is a city allowed to be here” unreal. Melbourne’s no slouch - there’s great gardens everywhere, hills, and a nice river - but, when it comes to nature, not even remotely comparable. I went to Bondi for one evening, now it’s probably my favorite urban beach. St. Kilda’s nice, sometimes delightfully quirky, and peaceful, but in, as my barber in,Melbourne shared, the “I ride my bike down there for midnight vibes” sense, not the “wow I’d love to surf bum for 6 months just to hang out here” sense.
Here’s the biggest difference: Sydney isn’t a city. Except for like 2 blocks plus the big tourist sites, it’s one humongous suburb. The best one in the world, probably. It’s the only city I’ve ever seen where the neighborhood right outside the airport, for the most part, looks nearly equally idyllic to the ones right by the center of town. Even right outside Central Station, there’s practically zero foot traffic; there’s barely cars either, there’s just simply not that many people in one place, ever. Think LA, but only the nice neighborhoods, but without the real downtown, or high-density areas at all, really.
If you’re 35, with two kids, two dogs, and a high-paying job, if you like brunch, the beach, dinner on the waterfront, dog parks, green spaces, hikes in the mountains, suburbs with plentiful urban amenities that you would never, ever find en masse within 5 miles of US suburbs, civility, and peace and quiet, you will find Sydney to be basically the garden of Eden. To me, Sydney felt like a country club… with places inside it that were Country-club-Ception. Right now - being 18, single, cheap, Philly-bred, music-scene-dependent, and a city boy - I wouldn’t live there.
By my ridiculous practically-New-Yorker standards, Melbourne’s probably the only ~proper city~ in Oceania. There’s like 4 square miles of proper urbanity, in which everything is phenomenal. Then, imo, everything drops way off the moment you enter the suburbs. If you want to live deep in the suburbs, there’s really no point in living in Melbourne, from what I can tell.
But in the CBD, Melbourne is basically like Boston, from my observations, only better organized. Lots of hipsters, yuppies, urban freer spirits, starving artists (only without the starving part). Extremely leftist, to the eyes of probably most people not from Northern Europe. Legitimate ethnic enclaves, though still way, way more integrated than those in US cities. Lots of foot traffic, lots of urban public spaces where people hang out. Hopping on Friday nights. Full of graffiti, but in the way where rich white grandmas who visit take the independent street art tour alone, ambling through the 3-foot-wide laneways, armed, often, with their $1000 cameras, with no reason to fear being robbed. It feels kind of like a giant college town, only with world-class urban/cultural amenities.
I generally found Sydney cold to me, the clueless foreigner, while Melbourne was more accessible, more welcoming- in part, maybe, because Melbourne, while perhaps more socialistic politically, has this fierce streak of individualism that makes it less uncomfortable when you make yourself stand out slightly. No Jante law, no tall poppy syndrome seems to exist in Melbourne. The music busking culture is unreal, probably the best I’ve ever seen outside New York/Boston- people have the money, plus communal instinct, to support, but respect individualism enough to celebrate buskers rather than judging them. And everyone - everyone - doing it knows how to make the looper pedal sexy.
Melbourne is like California in that everyone is into health food/lifestyle shit. So is Sydney, but there, that shit’s too expensive for most people. Melbourne has the highest concentration of cafes that offer almond milk in their coffee per capita of anywhere I’ve ever been, by a factor of probably over 50. It’s universal. It’s great.
Melbournians are probably funnier, based on my brief experience. If you like British humor, you’ll probably get on well with them.
They also are, generally, the only people from Oz I knew from my life before coming to Oz- the ones I met in music school in Boston, in the NGO I worked with in Tanzania, etc. Maybe that’s because they’re more outgoing, adventurous, willing to get out into the world away from the beach, from their personal Eden.
Or maybe Sydney’s just so perfect that nobody bothers leaving. I don’t know.
In the immortal words of Frank Ocean: “why see the world, when you’ve got the beach?”
Personally, I don't think you've provided enough detail in your question to give you a sensible recommendation. The cities are different and each has advantages and disadvantages. The one that is best for you depends on your personal preferences.
You may not realise what you have sparked but, as the question is posed, you are likely to achieve nothing other than ignition of a bone-dry tinderbox that is Melbourne patriotism. If you ever drive from Sydney to Melbourne you will, at some point, notice a faint, continuous, irritating drone. Depending on the direction of the breeze, it is usually first heard somewhere around the NSW / Victorian border, however, it builds to a cacophany the closer you get to Melbourne. This inane noise is the cumulative voice of Melbournians trying to convince anyone who will listen that Melbourne is the best place to live in the world.
I have no idea why they feel the need to justify their choice of home but, if you've never experienced this phenomenon, it's like being forced to play sport against your baby brother. The game is of no interest to you, you know it will end in a tantrum unless he wins and you would much rather head to the beach with your friends. However, he harps and harps and harps and won't leave you alone until he has furiously scurried around in a sweaty, desperate attempt to prove that he's better than you. It's a noisy, tedious and sad spectacle.
If you watch the game from the kitchen window you'll hear the baby brother screaming that Melbourne has better "culture", "shopping", "food" and "sports". He will also be taunting that he is always voted the "most liveable city in the world" - referring to the Economist Intelligence Unit's "Liveability Ranking and Overview". This ranking is designed for use by employers assigning hardship allowances as part of job relocation - so it basically means that in Melbourne you can get to work quickly, without getting dead, and shouldn't expect much 'danger money' from your boss if sent there. Melbourne "journalists" choose to interpret this ranking as evidence that Melbourne is "the greatest place in the world" but this is like your brother arguing he's the best player in his team because his coach gave him a certificate for being polite.
However, despite my obvious anti-Melbourne bias I am quite happy to concede almost every claim made about Melbourne's superiority - better culture, shopping and sporting events. Although, I am going to start with a disagreement and hope that people forget about it before getting to the comments section. People from Melbourne loudly claim to have the best "food" in Australia. They chant it like a mantra hoping that it will magically come true. Unfortunately, it never does. Sydney has the best restaurants in Australia. Of the highest rated Australian restaurants Sydney has 6 out of the top 10. Melbourne has 2. Loudly yelling that you're the best doesn't make it true.
And, while I'm on the subject, it's not really a fair comparison to travel to Sydney for a weekend, visit only tourist destinations and then point out that Sydney lacks the charm and quality of that tiny cafe, with a boutique brewery in the cellar, that is hidden in an alley near your house. Unless you live somewhere, and spend time searching for quality, you will never know what a city truly has to offer. Sydney has awesome food and if you cannot find fantastic food, from any style, at a reasonable price in Sydney then it simply means you don't know where to look. If you choose to eat McDonalds at Circular Quay whilst looking at the Harbour Bridge it's a reflection on you - not Sydney.
Now with that out of the way let's just agree that Melbourne has a better sporting vibe, better culture and better shopping. Let's not even play the game - let's just agree that its true. For that to make Melbourne a better place to live implies that everybody is passionate about sports, culture and shopping. What about if you're not? Is it OK to not want to live in Melbourne because you have absolutely no interest in what is on offer?
For example, I agree that if you are a mad Collingwood fan, and are passionate about barracking for your team at the ground, on the street and in the workplace, then Melbourne is definately the place to be. However, if you don't know what a Collingwood is, then the argument about sporting passion isn't compelling. Religous fervour about something that you don't care about isn't an attraction - it's akin to marketing a zoo by advertising how passionately the monkeys throw excrement at each other.
Alas, I've now reached the point where I must confess that I don't know what "culture" and "shopping" means. I've always assumed "culture" explains the various shades of black you'll see everyone wearing in Melbourne, and riding a single speed bike to sit on cushions on the floor of a hipster cafe, and it probably means that Melbourne ballet dancers stand higher on their tippie-toes. I think that "good shopping" means that Coles has shorter queues. But, obviously, I have no idea. Furthermore, I've always assumed that if I don't know what these terms mean then this stuff can't be very important to me. I'm not about "culture" and I'm not longing for people to appreciate how my coal-black jacket contrasts majestically against my midnight-black jeans.
The fact is that there are 4.5 million people living in Sydney and 4 million living in Melbourne. I'm sure there is a percentage of each who are there against their will - trapped by work or family commitments - but there are millions of people living in each city with a firm belief that it is the right place for them. I think it is a little arrogant to try and argue that 4 million people are wrong because somewhere else is universally better.
I was born in Sydney and my parents, grandparents, wife and children are all in Sydney. My lifelong friends are in Sydney. I have awesome neighbours and live in a quiet street that has experienced no murders for SEVERAL weeks. I've grown up surfing on the Northern Beaches and racing yachts on Sydney harbour. I have member's tickets for the sport I am passionate about - a sport that is unpopular in Melbourne - and I have no interest in AFL. I admit that I see the Opera House regularly - but to me it's nothing but a landmark to line up before tacking around Fort Denison. I have no idea what goes on inside there and I don't care whether its done better somewhere else. I have spent a lifetime working out where the best coffee and food is. I live 8 minutes from work and don't get stuck in traffic. I can afford my mortagage and "housing prices" don't affect me. For me, and what I am passionate about in life, Sydney is nirvana. To argue that Melbourne is "more liveable" for me is to argue that a professional snowboarder should move to the Caribbean because it's sunny.
Melbourne and Sydney have different strengths and weaknesses. Which you'll prefer depends more on YOU than the city. If you love the beach and hate the cold you wouldn't pick Melbourne. If you have a panic attack in crowds or burst into tears every time a train is late then you'd avoid Sydney. If you want sensible advice about which city would be more liveable for you and your family you need to specify what sort of stuff rocks your world. Although, if your wardrobe is awash in a rainbow of different blacks then your choice is clear.
2 Answers
SADSDASD
Upvotes from:
You can tell it’s hard to fail in Melbourne, because the vast majority of the homeless people you meet seem to be on some insane drugs. There seems to so much tolerance for being loose with the system when really in need that, if you even remotely care to better yourself, you shouldn’t end up homeless. To me, Melbourne made Auckland - a top-10 city in “quality of life” that seems to take care of its people phenomenally - look brutally heartless by comparison.
I think most people would concur that Sydney has better weather. That said, it’s too humid, imo. And, even in the summer, the sun, while constantly out, feels strangely dim. I found Melbourne summer pretty nice, but I take it the winters kind of suck.
Sydney’s nature is unreal, too. Like, “how is a city allowed to be here” unreal. Melbourne’s no slouch - there’s great gardens everywhere, hills, and a nice river - but, when it comes to nature, not even remotely comparable. I went to Bondi for one evening, now it’s probably my favorite urban beach. St. Kilda’s nice, sometimes delightfully quirky, and peaceful, but in, as my barber in,Melbourne shared, the “I ride my bike down there for midnight vibes” sense, not the “wow I’d love to surf bum for 6 months just to hang out here” sense.
Here’s the biggest difference: Sydney isn’t a city. Except for like 2 blocks plus the big tourist sites, it’s one humongous suburb. The best one in the world, probably. It’s the only city I’ve ever seen where the neighborhood right outside the airport, for the most part, looks nearly equally idyllic to the ones right by the center of town. Even right outside Central Station, there’s practically zero foot traffic; there’s barely cars either, there’s just simply not that many people in one place, ever. Think LA, but only the nice neighborhoods, but without the real downtown, or high-density areas at all, really.
If you’re 35, with two kids, two dogs, and a high-paying job, if you like brunch, the beach, dinner on the waterfront, dog parks, green spaces, hikes in the mountains, suburbs with plentiful urban amenities that you would never, ever find en masse within 5 miles of US suburbs, civility, and peace and quiet, you will find Sydney to be basically the garden of Eden. To me, Sydney felt like a country club… with places inside it that were Country-club-Ception. Right now - being 18, single, cheap, Philly-bred, music-scene-dependent, and a city boy - I wouldn’t live there.
By my ridiculous practically-New-Yorker standards, Melbourne’s probably the only ~proper city~ in Oceania. There’s like 4 square miles of proper urbanity, in which everything is phenomenal. Then, imo, everything drops way off the moment you enter the suburbs. If you want to live deep in the suburbs, there’s really no point in living in Melbourne, from what I can tell.
But in the CBD, Melbourne is basically like Boston, from my observations, only better organized. Lots of hipsters, yuppies, urban freer spirits, starving artists (only without the starving part). Extremely leftist, to the eyes of probably most people not from Northern Europe. Legitimate ethnic enclaves, though still way, way more integrated than those in US cities. Lots of foot traffic, lots of urban public spaces where people hang out. Hopping on Friday nights. Full of graffiti, but in the way where rich white grandmas who visit take the independent street art tour alone, ambling through the 3-foot-wide laneways, armed, often, with their $1000 cameras, with no reason to fear being robbed. It feels kind of like a giant college town, only with world-class urban/cultural amenities.
I generally found Sydney cold to me, the clueless foreigner, while Melbourne was more accessible, more welcoming- in part, maybe, because Melbourne, while perhaps more socialistic politically, has this fierce streak of individualism that makes it less uncomfortable when you make yourself stand out slightly. No Jante law, no tall poppy syndrome seems to exist in Melbourne. The music busking culture is unreal, probably the best I’ve ever seen outside New York/Boston- people have the money, plus communal instinct, to support, but respect individualism enough to celebrate buskers rather than judging them. And everyone - everyone - doing it knows how to make the looper pedal sexy.
Melbourne is like California in that everyone is into health food/lifestyle shit. So is Sydney, but there, that shit’s too expensive for most people. Melbourne has the highest concentration of cafes that offer almond milk in their coffee per capita of anywhere I’ve ever been, by a factor of probably over 50. It’s universal. It’s great.
Melbournians are probably funnier, based on my brief experience. If you like British humor, you’ll probably get on well with them.
They also are, generally, the only people from Oz I knew from my life before coming to Oz- the ones I met in music school in Boston, in the NGO I worked with in Tanzania, etc. Maybe that’s because they’re more outgoing, adventurous, willing to get out into the world away from the beach, from their personal Eden.
Or maybe Sydney’s just so perfect that nobody bothers leaving. I don’t know.
In the immortal words of Frank Ocean: “why see the world, when you’ve got the beach?”
dora
Upvotes from:
You may not realise what you have sparked but, as the question is posed, you are likely to achieve nothing other than ignition of a bone-dry tinderbox that is Melbourne patriotism. If you ever drive from Sydney to Melbourne you will, at some point, notice a faint, continuous, irritating drone. Depending on the direction of the breeze, it is usually first heard somewhere around the NSW / Victorian border, however, it builds to a cacophany the closer you get to Melbourne. This inane noise is the cumulative voice of Melbournians trying to convince anyone who will listen that Melbourne is the best place to live in the world.
I have no idea why they feel the need to justify their choice of home but, if you've never experienced this phenomenon, it's like being forced to play sport against your baby brother. The game is of no interest to you, you know it will end in a tantrum unless he wins and you would much rather head to the beach with your friends. However, he harps and harps and harps and won't leave you alone until he has furiously scurried around in a sweaty, desperate attempt to prove that he's better than you. It's a noisy, tedious and sad spectacle.
If you watch the game from the kitchen window you'll hear the baby brother screaming that Melbourne has better "culture", "shopping", "food" and "sports". He will also be taunting that he is always voted the "most liveable city in the world" - referring to the Economist Intelligence Unit's "Liveability Ranking and Overview". This ranking is designed for use by employers assigning hardship allowances as part of job relocation - so it basically means that in Melbourne you can get to work quickly, without getting dead, and shouldn't expect much 'danger money' from your boss if sent there. Melbourne "journalists" choose to interpret this ranking as evidence that Melbourne is "the greatest place in the world" but this is like your brother arguing he's the best player in his team because his coach gave him a certificate for being polite.
However, despite my obvious anti-Melbourne bias I am quite happy to concede almost every claim made about Melbourne's superiority - better culture, shopping and sporting events. Although, I am going to start with a disagreement and hope that people forget about it before getting to the comments section. People from Melbourne loudly claim to have the best "food" in Australia. They chant it like a mantra hoping that it will magically come true. Unfortunately, it never does. Sydney has the best restaurants in Australia. Of the highest rated Australian restaurants Sydney has 6 out of the top 10. Melbourne has 2. Loudly yelling that you're the best doesn't make it true.
And, while I'm on the subject, it's not really a fair comparison to travel to Sydney for a weekend, visit only tourist destinations and then point out that Sydney lacks the charm and quality of that tiny cafe, with a boutique brewery in the cellar, that is hidden in an alley near your house. Unless you live somewhere, and spend time searching for quality, you will never know what a city truly has to offer. Sydney has awesome food and if you cannot find fantastic food, from any style, at a reasonable price in Sydney then it simply means you don't know where to look. If you choose to eat McDonalds at Circular Quay whilst looking at the Harbour Bridge it's a reflection on you - not Sydney.
Now with that out of the way let's just agree that Melbourne has a better sporting vibe, better culture and better shopping. Let's not even play the game - let's just agree that its true. For that to make Melbourne a better place to live implies that everybody is passionate about sports, culture and shopping. What about if you're not? Is it OK to not want to live in Melbourne because you have absolutely no interest in what is on offer?
For example, I agree that if you are a mad Collingwood fan, and are passionate about barracking for your team at the ground, on the street and in the workplace, then Melbourne is definately the place to be. However, if you don't know what a Collingwood is, then the argument about sporting passion isn't compelling. Religous fervour about something that you don't care about isn't an attraction - it's akin to marketing a zoo by advertising how passionately the monkeys throw excrement at each other.
Alas, I've now reached the point where I must confess that I don't know what "culture" and "shopping" means. I've always assumed "culture" explains the various shades of black you'll see everyone wearing in Melbourne, and riding a single speed bike to sit on cushions on the floor of a hipster cafe, and it probably means that Melbourne ballet dancers stand higher on their tippie-toes. I think that "good shopping" means that Coles has shorter queues. But, obviously, I have no idea. Furthermore, I've always assumed that if I don't know what these terms mean then this stuff can't be very important to me. I'm not about "culture" and I'm not longing for people to appreciate how my coal-black jacket contrasts majestically against my midnight-black jeans.
The fact is that there are 4.5 million people living in Sydney and 4 million living in Melbourne. I'm sure there is a percentage of each who are there against their will - trapped by work or family commitments - but there are millions of people living in each city with a firm belief that it is the right place for them. I think it is a little arrogant to try and argue that 4 million people are wrong because somewhere else is universally better.
I was born in Sydney and my parents, grandparents, wife and children are all in Sydney. My lifelong friends are in Sydney. I have awesome neighbours and live in a quiet street that has experienced no murders for SEVERAL weeks. I've grown up surfing on the Northern Beaches and racing yachts on Sydney harbour. I have member's tickets for the sport I am passionate about - a sport that is unpopular in Melbourne - and I have no interest in AFL. I admit that I see the Opera House regularly - but to me it's nothing but a landmark to line up before tacking around Fort Denison. I have no idea what goes on inside there and I don't care whether its done better somewhere else. I have spent a lifetime working out where the best coffee and food is. I live 8 minutes from work and don't get stuck in traffic. I can afford my mortagage and "housing prices" don't affect me. For me, and what I am passionate about in life, Sydney is nirvana. To argue that Melbourne is "more liveable" for me is to argue that a professional snowboarder should move to the Caribbean because it's sunny.
Melbourne and Sydney have different strengths and weaknesses. Which you'll prefer depends more on YOU than the city. If you love the beach and hate the cold you wouldn't pick Melbourne. If you have a panic attack in crowds or burst into tears every time a train is late then you'd avoid Sydney. If you want sensible advice about which city would be more liveable for you and your family you need to specify what sort of stuff rocks your world. Although, if your wardrobe is awash in a rainbow of different blacks then your choice is clear.